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A suggestion for the sovereigns

soOblivious

Member
Hello everyone Oblivious here,
This is just a quick suggestion for the medieval server, since it is a older server I think a new rank in the /ranks should be added so they can have a new rank to go to and to expand the economy of medieval.
Maybe something like
King
New perk
4th job or something
Or new home
Cost: 350 mill or something
 

MadMikael

Well-Known Member
Emperor
As a sovereign, let me put it straight, no.
The grinding in me would get 350M; but it’s absolutely an enormous amount—1.75x the total amount to get to sovereign, which is absolutely ludicrous. Personally, a 4th job would be nice, but not worth...350M. And definitely not a new home. xD
And yet, here I see in game that you quit again... at least that's what everyone is saying.
I know you did try to dabble in the other servers a little, but the desire isn't there, is it?
Starting on another server may appeal to some, but the truth is you have all this work and these accomplishments that you're essentially giving up.
Sov is the current "End of the game".... you now have /fly, but, what use is it? Unless you're building, I don't see much - there's no reason to grind or play anymore save to chat.

I think if /fly had more purpose in itself, that could help. Perhaps a new realm of sky islands or something, similar to the end? Someplace you could only fly to get to? A place with super rare cosmetic blocks perhaps? And job-wise, how could /fly help? The reason I ask is I don't think the 4th job is such a bad idea... especially if it unlocked at Sov.

But I do get the idea for the new rank - extending the end game.
Like it or not, you Sovs have been around long enough that some people like to have you around, and would like to keep you around.
Balancing the grind is only part of it (as you say, 350M is ridiculous). With the length of time it takes for just Sov, I don't see why the next rank couldn't just be the same amount again, 200M. It could depend on what the rewards are for said rank. EDIT: nvm the 200M, I wasn't thinking of the actual numbers. All of my numbers are subject to balancing.

The aforementioned money sinks thread is a good place for some ideas, and we should resurrect it, as even Naskel hinted that he liked it. Perhaps these two ideas can be intertwined a little.
https://www.castiamc.com/threads/more-money-sinks.7303/

As mentioned in that thread, pvs and stuff could be nice, but they'd have to be quite limited to not upset donations.
Perhaps a hybrid:
If you're a Sov, you can buy 1 more pv for in-game currency, and if you're an Emperor Sov, you can buy 1 more pv on top of that for real money (numbers subject to evaluation). With the next rank, this could continue.... but we're still at the reasoning of why you'd want those. You need a reason to use them... a fourth job could help.
Piecemeal donor upgrades like this would be good for those who've already bought Emperor, and attaching some to in game ranks required as well has its pros and cons. I think offering extra pvs shouldn't be available to those without minimum donor ranks, or people might just buy them instead (ok, maybe a limit of 1 this way).

Personally, I think the "ultimate end of the game" would be maximizing ALL the jobs. That is a bit OP in the main system, so maybe you only get the perks from the first three, or similar... perhaps you can get other bonuses from the milestones in the extra jobs? But I think that even if you don't get those perks, you should still be able to make money from the new jobs (to encourage you to play).

Ok, I'm a bit tired, but I know the feeling of dread when you've finished your fave game and wished it would continue (but don't want to start over).
I hope my points were clear enough, and perhaps my ideas will spark better ones in others.
Also, anyone reading this should also check out that money sink thread, many good ideas there as well.
Most wanted, I believe, are ideas for perks that aren't too OP but could be desirable.
 

CrosshairIV

Active Member
Emperor
Diablo here. Cant really say yes or no. For me there is still a lot of stuff to do. I have started a 6 month public project 2.5 months ago. Public farm and grinders for Demonic. After this i want to become a castian buy/sel point. And start the hunting job to get acces to castian stuff more easy. I have found a player that is willing to learn me how to build original nice builds. And i really want to learn how to become a good builder. Players have been asking me to start a real town as well. I think there are a lot of goals. And i have more ideas than i have time.
Cross
 

Windows_Vs_Apple

Active Member
I would agree with this not being sovereign just for the engagement that it will hopefully bring to new players and older players. It could help the economy and also hurt it. Its good if someone buys that rank because that's 350,000,000 leaving the economy which is good, hopefully can reduce inflation. Now lets talk about the bad side, having a 4th rank could also leave the economy out of balance and allow TOO much money to enter the economy, though I doubt this would happen.
 

Madeyemann

Well-Known Member
Emperor
I would agree with this not being sovereign just for the engagement that it will hopefully bring to new players and older players. It could help the economy and also hurt it. Its good if someone buys that rank because that's 350,000,000 leaving the economy which is good, hopefully can reduce inflation. Now lets talk about the bad side, having a 4th rank could also leave the economy out of balance and allow TOO much money to enter the economy, though I doubt this would happen.
Having a fourth job, doesn't mean more money---it just means gaining money from a different profession. There is no two jobs you can overlap to make a lot of money. It would just give players another way to make money, which, I don't feel is worth, 350M or near that amount.
 

MadMikael

Well-Known Member
Emperor
The current rank of Sov takes 100m to get to from the previous rank, yes?
Well, the next rank should take at least another 100m, and it doesn't have to conform to the existing formula.
It's not unheard of for some rpgs to go to a linear scaling once numbers get ridiculous.
But let's stop focusing on the cost - because it's not as important as what could possibly make you want to grind it, anyway.
I was kicking around this concept in my head while the forums were down, and there are actually several things imo that could tie together.

Perks are definitely one thing - some say they need reworking; and it looks like right now builder has nothing.
Besides the 4th job idea, why not consider raising the job level cap to 100?
Give the existing sovs a reason to come back and compete (well, unless you were foolish and dropped your jobs, wink wink).
The pay and xp gained could very well cap at the level 75 rates, so you have 25 levels to grind at that rate. Or they could be increased in a different scaling than the previous. I'm not a numbers guy so much, but I've heard it said that a mathematician was used in the past.
I would say, the jobs need examining anyway, if you look at the jobs held by those that are the most active and/or the highest in game ranks.
IMO, there's too much coincidence there to say the jobs are truly balanced.

I am too tired rn to go looking, but I think it's posted somewhere about a perk for water breathing. That sounds neat, and would be useful in 1.13 updates. Along that line, there are various underwater enchants that could be considered as a /command perk.

Is /disenchant even useful? Well, idk... but perhaps a form of enchanting that was a little less random could be thought up.

When I was hunting the other day, I was thinking "wouldn't it be cool if there were an item that could aggro mobs like zombie pigmen get aggroed?". Ok, I know not everyone would like that, but I would.

If the market was expanded on Medieval, a perk to have a 2nd market shop could be considered.

I would also like to see the ability to create a bundle item; i.e. how you can sell items in a shulker, but minus the expensive shulker (the box destroys upon opening, or can only be refilled by someone with the perk). What I like most about this idea is, you could sell a bundled package to newbs (like armor, tools, and weapons) without worrying about some greedy player coming along and buying all your stock just to salvage the chestplates or something.

In game, discussion has gone on to limit chat of new players; while that has probably more cons than pros, the inverse may be more considerable; that at a certain rank you gain access to another chat channel, so that if you do not want to hear the newest players, you don't have to (we all have our days when we just want to turn chat off).

I still think the idea of focus should be what perks could/should be added, and for that, I hope that the most dedicated and experienced players will get on board and toss out ideas to help make the game more interesting. Let's focus less on putting down ideas and focus more on tossing some out there; i.e. just because my above ideas suck, doesn't mean they won't give someone else a better idea. The numbers involved are more of a fine-tuning thing at the end of implementation anyway.

Perhaps we need a new thread, maybe; one to focus more on perks.... but I think this concept originally posted here is tied into a few others in a general theme of a slight restructuring/rebalancing of perks, jobs, and ranks. I know the table is quite full with bug fixes right now, but inspiration is a miracle worker, so let's try and inspire one another, and especially our coders. Sorry for rambling, I'm a bit tired... but hopefully, if you've read this far, I've sparked at least one idea in you that you will share. Don't focus so much on the numbers, focus on the delight of the gameplay.
 

Classicalad

Staff
Staff member
Manager
Since there's a lot of talk of adding a fourth job, this seems particularly relevant again;

I don't feel strongly either way about being able to unlock a fourth job, but I have a couple comments:

(1) Being able to unlock a fourth job would be nice in some ways, but it's not necessary, and it wouldn't be particularly helpful for the same reason that it wouldn't be particularly powerful: Assuming the job payouts of all jobs are balanced (which is at least roughly true), generally a player isn't going be able to make any more money at a fourth job than at their first three jobs. (This is, I think, basically Robert_Custers' point above.) In fact, if a fourth job is added, probably the average income rates of players with them will /decrease/, because they'll be more likely to spend time leveling their new job, which will generally be of a lower level. The main gameplay benefits of a fourth job seem to be (a) more opportunities for income from synergies between jobs (like farmer + cook)---but these are also generally available to players with three and even two jobs, and (b) access to a fourth set of job perks---which is definitely cool, but I don't see how it could be overpowered.

That said, once you've maxed two jobs, when you want to level your jobs you only have one to choose from, and this really makes working on your job feel stale sometimes. So, if a fourth job is made unlockable, this is a good reason to make the unlocking condition something like maxing one or two jobs. This is sensible in another way too: Since jobs are one of the basic gameplay mechanics of the server, maxing out a job is a significant achievement, and it would be great to have a commensurate and thematically appropriate perk beyond bragging rights shared by all jobs.

(2)

Speaking as the player that (at least for now) stands to gain the most from an increase of the jobs cap, I think it would be bad for the server. It would widen the already broad gap between new players and longtime, wealthy ones: A level 75 player makes money at ~18x the rate a brand new player does, but a level 100 player would make money at ~49x the new player rate.

A secondary issue is that a few players maxed their job a long time ago and have grinded their job a good deal since then. It's only fair that in the event of a job cap increase they be given a commensurate number of levels in those jobs, but it could be difficult to make those assignments in a way that is fair and satisfactory to everyone.

FWIW, because the xp requirements for each successive level of a job increase exponentially, the difference between a job cap of 75 and one of 100 is enormous: It would take > 12x as much work to level a job to lvl100 than it does to level a job to lvl75. Even if a player can level a job to lvl75 (much faster than I did for either of my lvl75 jobs), it would take > 3 years to max a job at the same rate, so practically a cap of lvl100 is the same as having no cap at all.
 

Woolfeh

Staff
Staff member
Guide
I'm not totally opposed to a rank beyond sovereign but this wouldn't help the medieval economy much. If you notice on baltop there are more non sovs than sovs, also a lot of players just sit on huge balances because the perks are not worth it. We need money sinks available to players of all ranks, not just sovereign.
 

MadMikael

Well-Known Member
Emperor
I'm not totally opposed to a rank beyond sovereign but this wouldn't help the medieval economy much. If you notice on baltop there are more non sovs than sovs, also a lot of players just sit on huge balances because the perks are not worth it. We need money sinks available to players of all ranks, not just sovereign.
I was thinking of how useless /baltop really is when comparing in a competition sense - it really only shows how much money one has on hand.
Tbf, a Sov with 10m should be worth more than an Earl with 50m.
Perhaps a new command, for networth could be added, that not only considers /bal, but also, the amount spent on ranks too.
Not sure if you'd want to incorporate a town's worth as well, if they're mayor... and a nation? These are slightly less important now that upkeep has been removed, so I don't think they could really factor into a networth for currency purposes... unless someone still keeps large amounts of money in their town bank.
 

Madeyemann

Well-Known Member
Emperor
I was thinking of how useless /baltop really is when comparing in a competition sense - it really only shows how much money one has on hand.
Tbf, a Sov with 10m should be worth more than an Earl with 50m.
Perhaps a new command, for networth could be added, that not only considers /bal, but also, the amount spent on ranks too.
Not sure if you'd want to incorporate a town's worth as well, if they're mayor... and a nation? These are slightly less important now that upkeep has been removed, so I don't think they could really factor into a networth for currency purposes... unless someone still keeps large amounts of money in their town bank.
Not a bad suggestion..but seems it would be best in a separate forum.